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STOLEN: Michael Jordan Fleer Playmakers 88/100 (story here)
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spinotron
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear what you have been through for that card. Hope you get it back sooner than later.

Some people doubt this, but I think you can submit graded cards for review and regrade, for the latter service you can end up with drop in grade as well as bump if you don't put minimal grade in. And cards are not graded by machine, there can be overgrading and undergrading. Busting card out if not careful can damage or chip the card, so unless you're slobby, I don't recommend it. Wink

Hope what happened won't deter you from amassing a world class card collection. The MJ registry guy needs some competition. Wink Hope can see a mailday from you here, if you decide to share.

Good luck.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you get insurance when sending $4K - 5K worth of cards to Beckett for grading?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy wrote:

I always hear that people are going to send cards back to Beckett for a regrade, but I rarely hear of any where the grade improves.


Where is the link for the BGS 9.5 auction of Amy/Shamy?




Randy


Randy, I've had countless cards bumped. You send a card in to have the 4 aspects reviewed, and if they find that 1 of them is worthy of a higher grade (or more) they'll change the grade. It is fairly easy to do with grading being such a subjective thing and Beckett making more $ by bumping.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhkid23 wrote:
Wow guys, cards are under graded all the time. The owner, Nat, obviously thought it should be a 9.5, as it is now, and sent it back in. Doesn't mean someone has inside with the company. Do you really think BGS purposely gives out 9.5's to 8 worthy cards? Come on. They would have no company. Are there guys who gets more bumps than others? Yes. Why does this happen? Because they submit thousands of cards. They don't get automatic bumps, trust me, but since they are submitting much more than the common submitter they naturally have a higher % chance at getting more bumps. People really need to get off of BGS.

+1000000

As for the Playmakers that is stolen, I remember when that seller (xedbats) listed it (Aug 1st) he had a starting bid of .99 or BIN for $2500 someone placed a bid in and that took away the BIN. Then he ended the auction and relisted it and placed the BIN price at $2700, I remember this cause I almost won the card myself, thank god my fingers move to slow and Amy beat me to the stolen property. With him (xedbats) relisting it after there was a bid I think it was pretty obvious he wanted to make the sale quick.

Another one of Amys Ebay names is "legacy_pmg_rubies" I have recieved emails from her from this ID.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudygayexquisite wrote:
I'm not a big fan of her work, but it's appalling to read all these negative comments about Amy.

There is someone working at Beckett who is stealing cards and selling them to the shop down the street.


I remember not too long ago, Nismo purchased a Jordan/Kobe autograph that everyone knew was stolen property and not one single person had a negative comment to make about him. He ended up selling that card just recently for a huge profit.


I'm sorry but what? Care to elaborate?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HobbyTime wrote:
rudygayexquisite wrote:
I'm not a big fan of her work, but it's appalling to read all these negative comments about Amy.

There is someone working at Beckett who is stealing cards and selling them to the shop down the street.


I remember not too long ago, Nismo purchased a Jordan/Kobe autograph that everyone knew was stolen property and not one single person had a negative comment to make about him. He ended up selling that card just recently for a huge profit.


I'm sorry but what? Care to elaborate?


Read this first.
http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120405&highlight=

Then Nismo won the card later.
http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=121432&highlight=
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sdouble wrote:

Randy, I've had countless cards bumped. You send a card in to have the 4 aspects reviewed, and if they find that 1 of them is worthy of a higher grade (or more) they'll change the grade. It is fairly easy to do with grading being such a subjective thing and Beckett making more $ by bumping.


...im losing my faith on BGS Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

engin33r wrote:
Sounds like beckett doesn't keep record of the serial number - if a card numbered 88/100 was graded a 9 (and they know it) - why would they give away a 9.5 the second time around? ...it just shows their inconsistency (which makes the whole grading thing a moot point - why would you pay much more for the exact same card just because the label says 9.5 instead of 9?)


the card was graded 9.5,9.5,9.0,9.0 maybethistime around they feel like its a 9.5instead of a 9.0
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daveduffield wrote:
Your collection is amazing !

Nice vintage cards, some tough NFL cards, great 90s of Kobe and terrific Jordans. Seems to be one of the best collections ever put together. I think you are on a path towards history in the making.

Good luck on the Playmakers Theatre !


Thanks!
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gabriel Garcia Marquez wrote:
I'm curious how often Beckett "never received the package"? I have no idea because I've never sent any cards there to be graded...I'm sure there are countless people who send cards and get them back just fine...just seems so shady that your package went missing when I can assume that 99% of the cards get there? Maybe I'm over/underestimating? Did the authorities mention anything about an investigation concerning the mail carrier that "lost" the package, because that could open the possibilty of mail fraud. It just seems to me that there is something missing concerning how this card was acquired and promptly sold off...

Regardless, man, good luck with everything...Sounds like you went on quite an adventure trying to dig info, and that you've bumped shoulders with several shady people along the way...Hope this whole thing gets resolved quickly with the card back in your possession...


Hey there. Yeah - but as soon as I told the story to a few collector friends, they also have had a few packages go missing when sending to BGS. When I talked to BGS after I discovered the card on eBay, I essentially asked them had this happened before, do they know who Michael Becker is or how he came into posession of the card, etc.., and they said the only case they knew of right away was one time with FedEx and they were able to track the FedEx employee down with FedEx's help. USPS as everyone knows is a nightmare of a company, and I do have an active investigation with the postal police concerning it. Essentially, the authorities think that the card was taken out of the mail, not by BGS, since it never arrived there. It's not hard to fathom that someone who knows a clue works at USPS and recognizes packages that are being sent to BGS and knows there are cards in that package at least worth grading (and therefore at least worth stealing potentially). Perhaps they are slitting open the package slightly to see what's in there, and only taking the really high-dollar stuff. I know plenty of collectors who with very high-end stuff, like this card, they're only giving BGS the cards in person for fear of them getting taken out of the mail. I'll most certainly be doing that from now on without question.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Few things here:

Firstly, sorry to hear about your loss, but I would like to ask a few questions:

1) what method did you send the card? first class/priority/express? And did you purchase insurance? Sounds like you didn't. In either case, let this serve as a grim reminder to all those sending expensive cards ANYWHERE...ALWAYS purchase full insurance AND tracking AND signature confirmation. USPS will be liable for all items that don't reach their intended destination if you cover your bases.

2) What did the tracking status last say? Was it ever delivered?

I'm not discounting your story in the least, but I just feel like there are some very critical details missing.

That being said, I myself put little to no faith in USPS nowadays. Most recently when one of their postal workers stole an expensive set of headphones from me. They picked up the package from my doorstep...2 weeks later I get an email from a disgruntled customer asking where the package is...I check online tracking, and the package was never scanned. Called up their fraud/claims hotline, gave them the tracking number, and they told me they'd open up an investigation, but chances were very slim of a resolution since the thief(s) never scanned the damn package in the first place. So I essentially had no crutch.

MOST ESPECIALLY WITH THE HOLIDAY SEASON APPROACHING: ALWAYS send packages with tracking, fully insured, with signature confirmation...and if you can: go to a usps office and drop the package off IN PERSON at the counter, so you physically see the employee do the scan receipt.

Crooks are all abound in this economy, but it's just scary that the people who we 'should' technically trust the most, are the ones we should fear.


Good luck with the recovery.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey everyone - as a quick update here, I was able to work out a deal with Amy / better_cover_lover / the_pirates_parrot for the return of the Jordan Playmakers 88/100 BGS 9.5 (which was a BGS 9 when I owned it and had sent it to BGS to be re-graded when it was stolen out of the mail presumably in Dallas, and then sold to Amy).

She was willing to take into account the fact that I technically currently own the card and thus had paid an amount to to originally acquire the card, and so I paid an amount of cash to make her whole for her troubles and the fact that she also bought the card (from Mike Becker in Dallas). I was very impressed that she was willing to work out a deal with the original owner (myself, who was a major customer of hers before).

Here's a link to the scan I just took of the card now that it is in my possession: http://www.flickr.com/photos/natsturner/6201496615/in/set-72157626044376996.

You can be sure that this card will not be entering the mail system any time soon Smile

As a note - the two LeBron's (one Fleer Patchworks Ruby /50 PSA 10 and one Topps Contemporary Gold /25 BGS 9) that were stolen along with the Jordan Playmakers are still missing. Please let me know if you notice these cards for sale or being offered anywhere.

Thanks

-Nat
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

glad you managed to get it back. Love your photostream so much BGS gold!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you just pay for her troubles (shipping, packaging, etc)
Or are you paying for the card again?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to read a happy ending to this story.

I do wonder about BGS grading though. They originally had the card graded a 10,9,9,10 for a total of BGS 9, at an average of 9.5.
If the card would have had subgrades of 9.5, 9.5, 9, 9.5 it would have been a BGS 9.5 at an average of 9.375.
So, the overall grade for a card with lower subgrades (on average) is better then for a card with better subgrades (on average). Mmh...

Also wonder, who cracked the card out of the original BGS 9 holder for resubmission ? And in case Beckett is doing this, do they take responsibility if damage is done in the process ?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on getting it back, now duct tape it to your hand so you never lose it again. Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awsome to hear about a nice happy ending ..you deserve to have it back and happy you did a bgs 9.5 playmakers defenitly belongs with the rest of your collection nat ...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nat, is that card really listed at $651,000.00? Is that what those go for?




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolz wrote:
dhkid23 wrote:
Wow guys, cards are under graded all the time. The owner, Nat, obviously thought it should be a 9.5, as it is now, and sent it back in. Doesn't mean someone has inside with the company. Do you really think BGS purposely gives out 9.5's to 8 worthy cards? Come on. They would have no company. Are there guys who gets more bumps than others? Yes. Why does this happen? Because they submit thousands of cards. They don't get automatic bumps, trust me, but since they are submitting much more than the common submitter they naturally have a higher % chance at getting more bumps. People really need to get off of BGS.


So you're saying that Beckett DOES NOT favor any customer?




No, I am sure he knows that BGS favors repeat customers. He was just joking............
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were the other cards ever recovered? So many unsolved mysteries like these...
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